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Genius or Madness?

Genius or Madness?
“Up/Down” Bipolar Disorder Documentary
Post Created by Jk the SK
Illustrated by j. kiley
Created May 12th 2013
Posted May 13th 2013

Original Transcript
6 November 2012
Genius or Madness?
Professor Glenn Wilson

“Great wits are sure to madness near allied, and thin partitions do their bounds divide” (John Dryden, 1681).
“There is no great genius without a tincture of madness” (Seneca, 1st Century A.D.).

dali spider of the evening

Many great artists and scientists appear to have gone slightly mad following their lofty achievements. Isaac Newton was arguably the greatest physicist of all time, introducing the concept of gravity and making major advances in optics, mechanics and mathematics. He was also intensely suspicious and distrustful of others and in later life dabbled in alchemy and sought hidden messages in the Bible. Of course, alchemy was not thought a mad pursuit in Newton’s day and he could have been afflicted with mercury poisoning as a result of his experiments.

dali the disintegration of the persistance of memory

Beethoven and Van Gogh are also said to have gone progressively mad, though the reasons are equally debatable. Beethoven’s mania may have been due to alcoholism, syphilis, or lead poisoning (apart from his profound deafness, which would distress anyone, let alone a musician). There are theories that Van Gogh’s mood swings were caused by porphyria rather than bipolar disorder, that he lost his ear in a duel with Gauguin (claiming self-injury to maintain his friendship) and that his “suicide” was an accidental shooting by two boys playing cowboys (whom he also protected).

van gogh starry night on the rhone

For others, the genius and madness appear in parallel. Nikola Tesla was a brilliant applied scientist whose inventions rivaled those of Edison. He obtained around 300 patents in radio and electricity technologies, pioneering alternating current and hydroelectric power. However, he claimed to be in communication with other planets, to have invented “death rays” and suffered from bizarre compulsions.

van gogh bridge

John Nash, the Nobel-winning mathematician who developed “game theory” for the social sciences also suffered paranoid delusions throughout his career. He was hospitalised involuntarily and had to feign sanity to be released. He still heard the voices but learned how to live with them and not to talk about them. “I wouldn’t have had such good scientific ideas if I had thought more normally” he said.

van gogh starry night

Sometimes it is a matter of chance or social milieu that determines whether an individual is deemed brilliant or crazy. To the Counter-Reformation Church leaders, Galileo was not necessarily mad (probably just heretical) but they clearly failed to appreciate his genius and subjected him to a lifetime of house arrest. In other times and places Picasso and Einstein might have been committed to an insane asylum rather than revered for their original thinking.

moby dick – jackson pollock

Many lists of creative achievers throughout history have been compiled along with mental health symptoms and diagnostic categories retrospectively assigned to them. Unfortunately, these are mostly anecdotal, speculative and lacking in proper controls for comparison. Some have argued that the connection between genius and madness has been over-egged because of a few high-profile cases such as those described above.

virginia woolf by george charles beresford 1902

The best evidence in support of the genius-madness link comes from behaviour genetics. The close relatives of creative people are more likely to be schizophrenic and vice versa (psychotics having more creative relatives). Einstein, for example, had a son who was schizophrenic, while Bertrand Russell had many schizophrenic relatives. According to Simonton (1999), “creative hits and crazy misses” are mixed within many illustrious family pedigrees, including the Darwins, Galtons and Huxleys.

virginia woolf

The first degree relatives of creative people are actually more prone to mental disorders than creatives themselves. This is because actual illness (as opposed to its genetic predisposition) is likely to impede a creative career. The exception seems to be writers, who themselves show high rates of many behavioural disorders, including psychoses, mood disorders, substance abuse and suicide.

Could the environment also be involved? Traumatic events in childhood and orphan status seem more common in those who make outstanding contributions to art and science. In a study of 700 high achievers, found that three-quarters had troubled childhoods, especially loss of a parent. The “school of hard knocks” could provide motivation and inspiration (Dickens and Chaplin come to mind here) while at the same time generating psychological disorder. However, this idea is opposite to the common-sense view that parental support and encouragement is beneficial to achievement, rather than maltreatment and deprivation. Indeed, the Goetzels found that wealth was more common in the backgrounds of famous people than poverty. And of course, pathology in the parents may be genetically transmitted to their children, thus accounting for some of the associations reported.

Virginia Woolf

Similar thought processes, such as unusual and grandiose ideas, together with a determination to promote them, seem to link genius and psychosis. Certain neurotransmitters and gene loci have been cited as common to both, including the male sex hormone testosterone, a gene relating to a growth factor involved in neural development and plasticity called neuregulin 1 (NRG1 and genes modulating dopamine transmission in the brain, e.g., DARPP-32.

virginia woolf painting

Unconventional thinking is characteristic of a constitutional personality trait called Psychoticism (P). This has many facets, including tough-mindedness, lack of empathy, impulsiveness, risk-taking, adventure-seeking, bizarre thinking, and a refusal to adhere to social norms. High levels of P predispose to psychopathy and clinical psychosis, as well as to creativity, thus accounting for the overlap between them. A good deal of research over recent decades has supported this theory. A related trait is called schizotypy. An optimum number of indicators for this relates to creative achievement, rather than full-blown schizophrenia.

kurt cobain

Dopamine function (or dysfunction?) may account for the link between genius and madness. Dopamine is the chemical messenger in the meso-limbic and cortical areas of the brain concerned with approach, reward, positive mood and achievement-seeking. Genes that modulate dopamine levels are reported to affect novelty-seeking behaviour and to relate to Impulsivity and Psychoticism. Recreational drugs that are addictive and sometimes lead to delusions and hallucinations (e.g., amphetamine psychosis) tend to raise levels of dopamine in the brain. By contrast, anti-psychotic medications are usually dopamine antagonists (this being one of the reasons why compliance is difficult). Untreated schizophrenics have more D2 receptors in the striatum and lower D2 binding in the thalamus.

kurt cobain – bipolar

Genius and psychotic are both inclined to loose associations (i.e., “thinking outside the box”). This can be observed as unusual responses on a word association test or in some of Salvador Dali’s surreal images (e.g., the Lobster-Telephone and the Mae West Lips Sofa). Such flexibility of thought seems to be increased by dopamine.

beethoven – bipolar

Another description of the schizophrenic thinking style is that it tends to be over-inclusive, with the boundaries of relevance being set more broadly. To most people, an apple falling off a tree and the movement of planets in the solar system would appear to have nothing in common, but Newton was insightful enough to connect them under the grand unifying concept of “gravity.” Of course, not all such generalisations turn out to be that useful but many great scientific theories depend upon the ability to perceive improbable connections.

carrie fisher – bipolar

Exactly how loose associations or over-inclusive thinking promote genius is unclear. If enough crazy ideas are generated, one or two might hit the target by chance alone. This approach is deliberately harnessed in “brainstorming” sessions which use random “flashcards” as a means of generating fresh ideas. Certainly, it is difficult to be creative operating within received wisdom and some of the greatest artists and composers were the “rebels” least shackled by the traditional rules of their art. However, the “shotgun” theory smacks slightly of “monkeys on typewriters”. (It would take a long time for them come up with the complete works of Shakespeare). Outstanding advances in science, like the theories of evolution and relativity, and great works of art, such as Wagner’s Ring Cycle, cannot be generated by chance alone. Profound imagination and high-level spatial intelligence is usually required in addition.

bipolar behaviour

Application to the point of “work addiction” is also often involved. Edison reckoned that genius was 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration.Most creative people are also the most productive. There is a positive correlation between quality and quantity of output, implying that each masterpiece is likely to be interspersed with much that is mediocre. (I do not ne)cessarily agree with this statement.)

marilyn monroe – bipolar

The human tendency to apophenia may be implicated in both creativity and madness. This refers to seeing meaningful patterns where they do not exist and it underlies superstition and hallucinations (e.g., seeing ghosts and hearing “voices”). This perceptual style has survival value because failing to spot a predator in the forest is a bigger (potentially fatal) mistake than seeing one where it does not exist. Exaggerated apophenia is characteristic of schizotypal individuals and is enhanced by dopamine.

ernest hemingway – bipolar

Another mental “illness” linked with creativity is bipolar mood disorder (previously called “manic-depressive psychosis”). This is characterised by extreme mood swings, occurring over a period of months, and it seems particularly to afflict artists, writers, musicians and comedians. Among highly talented people who appear to have suffered mood disorder are Peter Tchaikovsky, Robert Schumann, Vincent Van Gogh, Virginia Woolf, Spike Milligan, Paul Merton and Stephen Fry (who presented a TV documentary on bipolar disorder detailing his experiences).

winston churchill – bipolar

Genetic analysis shows links between bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. Sufferers are often tortured souls, particularly when the “Black Dog” afflicts them, and their feelings may be tapped to give greater depth and sensitivity to their art. On the other hand, the “flight of ideas” experienced in the “manic” phase of the mood cycle can result in exceptional productivity. As with the trade-off between schizophrenia and genius, bipolar disorder balances troughs with peaks in a way that might account for its evolutionary survival. Treatments are available for bipolar disorder but there is a danger that, by smoothing mood, they could impede the creative forces.

bipolar wheel

Then there are the autistic spectrum disorders (such as Asperger’s syndrome) in which a deficiency in social communication is sometimes accompanied by “savant” skills in fields like music, mathematics and spatial intelligence. In the film Rain Man (1988), Dustin Hoffman plays Raymond Babbitt an autistic whose exceptional memory is exploited by his brother to count cards in Las Vegas casinos. (This was loosely based on a real-life savant called Kim Peek, who may in fact have had a chromosome disorder). The artist Louis Wain, who became famous for his surrealistic cat paintings was hospitalised for schizophrenia, but others have argued he was actually autistic.

marilyn monroe poster

These various “disorders” can all contribute to extraordinary contributions to art and science. Some tendency to psychotic traits seems to be beneficial (thus accounting for the maintenance of such genes) but too much makes the individual disorganised and is hence detrimental. It is notable that creative artists and writers have profiles similar to those of psychotic patients on clinical scales of the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory (MMPI) but are less extreme – in fact, roughly half-way between normal controls and full-blown schizophrenics.

mel gibson – bipolar

What is the mechanism whereby schizophrenic genes promote survival? The clue may be in the behaviour of bower birds, the males of which make colourful and elaborate constructions in order to attract a female (the Taj Mahals of the bird world). Creativity has also been shown to promote mating success in men, as measured by number of sex partners. Since there is no such connection for women, it is not surprising that men’s productivity in art and science exceeds that of women by around ten times.(I don’t believe this statement about men exceed women by around ten times in productivity in art and science—more like opportunity and the continued imbalance in availability and acknowledgment).

medical cannabis for bipolar treatment

Obviously, it does not do to be totally and permanently “away with the fairies”; some measure of control needs to be maintained. Consider James Joyce and his daughter Lucia, who was being treated by Carl Jung for schizophrenia in 1934. Joyce doubted she could be schizophrenic because her thought patterns were so similar to his own. Jung disagreed, comparing father and daughter to two people who had arrived at the bottom of a river. According to Jung, James had dived there, whereas Lucia had fallen in.

marilyn monroe her famous selfish quote

Genius and madness have much in common but there are also important differences between them. Mostly these are to do with intelligence, self-insight and contact with reality. Salvador Dali said: “There is only one difference between a madman and me. The madman thinks he is sane. I know that I am mad”. Certainly, Dali was eccentric, self-absorbed and grandiose with a flamboyant moustache and a manic stare. But he was also a skilled draftsman, who produced brilliant, imaginative artworks, which made him rich, famous and able to enjoy a life of luxury. He was not, therefore, totally mad. © Professor Glenn D Wilson 2012

Genius or Madness? The Psychology of Creativity – Professor Glenn D. Wilson. The text is close to what is on the video but if you want to see it just click on this link.

“Up/Down” Bipolar Disorder Documentary FULL MOVIE (2011)This is a brilliantly made Documentary. Everyone who is Bipolar or knows someone who is or those in the Psychiatric profession and do counseling with anyone who is bipolar or anyone interested in bipolar and everyone who wants to have a knowledge of bipolar and find out what it is from what the myths are or how much people are misinformed about bipolar. A MUST SEE VIDEO. STOP THE STIGMA OF BIPOLAR AND ANY FORM OF MENTAL “ILLNESS” CREATIVITY.

Beethoven’s Ninth Symphony
QUOTATIONS on GENIUS:

“There’s a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line.” ― Oscar Levant

“Genius is nothing more nor less than childhood recaptured at will.” ― Charles Baudelaire, The Painter of Modern Life and Other Essays

“No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness.” ― Aristotle

“I’m a misunderstood genius.”
“What’s misunderstood?”
“Nobody thinks I’m a genius.”
― Bill Watterson

“Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius — and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.” ― E.F. Schumacher

“The public is wonderfully tolerant. It forgives everything except genius.”
― Oscar Wilde, The Artist as Critic: Critical Writings of Oscar Wilde

“The true genius shudders at incompleteness — imperfection — and usually prefers silence to saying the something which is not everything that should be said.” ― Edgar Allan Poe, Marginalia
QUOTATIONS on MADNESS:

“Sanity is a madness put to good uses.” ― George Santayana, Essential Santayana, The: Selected Writings

“So when you find yourself locked onto an unpleasant train of thought, heading for the places in your past where the screaming is unbearable, remember there’s always madness. Madness is the emergency exit.” ― Alan Moore, Batman: The Killing Joke

“Human madness is oftentimes a cunning and most feline thing. When you think it fled, it may have but become transfigured into some still subtler form.” ― Herman Melville, Moby-Dick

“I don’t possess these thoughts I have — they possess me. I don’t possess these feelings I have — They obsess me.” ― Ashly Lorenzana

“The thoughts written on the walls of madhouses by their inmates might be worth publicizing.” ― Georg Christoph Lichtenberg

“Men have called me mad; but the question is not settled whether madness is or is not the loftiest intelligence — whether much that is glorious — whether all that is profound — does not spring from disease of thought — from moods of mind exalted at the expense of the general intellect. They who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who only dream by night. In their gray visions they obtain glimpses of eternity, and thrill, in waking, to find that they have been upon the verge of the great secret. In snatches, they learn something of the wisdom which is of good, and more of the mere knowledge which is of evil. They penetrate, however rudderless or compassless, into the vast ocean of the ‘light ineffable’.” ― Edgar Allan Poe, Eleonora
QUOTATIONS on BIPOLAR:

“I’m the girl who is lost in space, the girl who is disappearing always, forever fading away and receding farther and farther into the background. Just like the Cheshire cat, someday I will suddenly leave, but the artificial warmth of my smile, that phony, clownish curve, the kind you see on miserably sad people and villains in Disney movies, will remain behind as an ironic remnant. I am the girl you see in the photograph from some party someplace or some picnic in the park, the one who is in fact soon to be gone. When you look at the picture again, I want to assure you, I will no longer be there. I will be erased from history, like a traitor in the Soviet Union. Because with every day that goes by, I feel myself becoming more and more invisible…” ― Elizabeth Wurtzel, Prozac Nation

“There is a particular kind of pain, elation, loneliness, and terror involved in this kind of madness. When you’re high it’s tremendous. The ideas and feelings are fast and frequent like shooting stars, and you follow them until you find better and brighter ones. Shyness goes, the right words and gestures are suddenly there, the power to captivate others a felt certainty. There are interests found in uninteresting people. Sensuality is pervasive and the desire to seduce and be seduced irresistible. Feelings of ease, intensity, power, well-being, financial omnipotence, and euphoria pervade one’s marrow. But, somewhere, this changes. The fast ideas are far too fast, and there are far too many; overwhelming confusion replaces clarity. Memory goes. Humor and absorption on friends’ faces are replaced by fear and concern. Everything previously moving with the grain is now against– you are irritable, angry, frightened, uncontrollable, and enmeshed totally in the blackest caves of the mind. You never knew those caves were there. It will never end, for madness carves its own reality.” ― Kay Redfield Jamison, An Unquiet Mind: A Memoir of Moods and Madness

“Manic-depression distorts moods and thoughts, incites dreadful behaviors, destroys the basis of rational thought, and too often erodes the desire and will to live. It is an illness that is biological in its origins, yet one that feels psychological in the experience of it, an illness that is unique in conferring advantage and pleasure, yet one that brings in its wake almost unendurable suffering and, not infrequently, suicide.” ― Kay Redfield Jamison, An Unquiet Mind: A Memoir of Moods and Madness

“Compared to bipolar’s magic, reality seems a raw deal. It’s not just the boredom that makes recovery so difficult, it’s the slow dawning pain that comes with sanity – the realization of illnesss, the humiliating scenes, the blown money and friendships and confidence. Depression seems almost inevitable. The pendulum swings back from transcendence in shards, a bloody, dangerous mess. Crazy high is better than crazy low. So we gamble, dump the pills, and stick it to the control freaks and doctors. They don’t understand, we say. They just don’t get it. They’ll never be artists.” ― David Lovelace, Scattershot: My Bipolar Family

“Depression is a painfully slow, crashing death. Mania is the other extreme, a wild roller coaster run off its tracks, an eight ball of coke cut with speed. It’s fun and it’s frightening as hell. Some patients – bipolar type I – experience both extremes; other – bipolar type II – suffer depression almost exclusively. But the “mixed state,” the mercurial churning of both high and low, is the most dangerous, the most deadly. Suicide too often results from the impulsive nature and physical speed of psychotic mania coupled with depression’s paranoid self-loathing.” ― David Lovelace, Scattershot: My Bipolar Family

“Absurdity and anti—absurdity are the two poles of creative energy.” ― Karl Lagerfeld

“Except you cannot outrun insanity, anymore than you can outrun your own shadow.” ― Alyssa Reyans, Letters from a Bipolar Mother

“Clear your energy, honor your rhythm, live your vision ” ― George Denslow, Living Out of Darkness: A Personal Journey of Embracing the Bipolar Opportunity

What’s So Funny About Mental Illness?

5 Replies

What’s So Funny About Mental Illness?
Rudy Wax
Also, Joshua Walters
On Being Just Crazy Enough
TED Talks
Stand Up Routine, I Joke…
by Jennifer Kiley
Posted 01.20.13
WARNING SOME STRONG LANGUAGE!!!

I had planned for tonight to be a continuation of the comedy of Bill Hicks but maybe he should be metered out in small doses. Alienating some of those who might not particuarly fancy his humour, I would rather not do all at one time, just in short blasts. The real reason, though, he is not on the menu tonight is, I have been having a crappy evening and night with my computer. First it crashes and I lose the material I was writing for the rest of my post for tonight on what makes people laugh. I was finally in the zone. Black out. Screen goes dead. Surprise, it come back on with a short message and tells me or assures me that everything is alright. Not even close.

The next event is a black out followed with the screen looking like some very young children took paint brushes with the ugliest of white and streaky black paint and smushed it all over my computer screen. And then there it is, the proverbial bad news blue screen with all the computer lettering telling you that they are dumping files and to tell you honestly, I have never been able to steady myself enough to read the whole F**king message. Who does? Your computer is fucking up again. Just one more time for the road.

It was like that for awhile as I stared at it. Expecting what I do not know. Finally, I pulled the plug. Well, not the plug actually, I just held my index finger down on the power button until that f**king screen went to fade black. All systems down. I waited. What was I going to do? I had just written or I was writing some pretty good material that I had been thinking about for several days and after doing research and listening to videos and paying close attention to laughing from a curious perspective of more the observer then the participater. Damned if I didn’t turn that laptop back on for some more punishment. This time however I wasn’t laughing. I was going into a bipolar depression. The computer had eaten everything I wrote. Word did not auto-save a damn thing except the instructions for a haiku i had already written and put into a post. So I sat there and tried to figure out what to do. I sure as hell was not going to put myself through trying to resurrect what i had just written. It was gone. Flew away. My mind was not in that place any longer.

I just wandered around on the internet looking for something to shake me up. Something to feed me some inspiration. I knew in the back of my mind I had something but I wasn’t sure I was prepared or ready to use it. Finally, I decided, why the fuck not. The message was a good one and it was really funny. So I listened. It made me laugh. Not a subject most people would feel comfortable as something to laugh at. It’s like when we laughed the first time, at the Emmy’s that Ellen Degeneres hosted just after 9/11. I’m not saying it is that extreme. But we could finally laugh together. I am going to play the TED Talk: “What’s So Funny About Mental Illness?” as performed by Ruby Wax. I’m bipolar and a lot of other quite mentally interesting but sometimes brilliant and sometimes fucking crazy off the wall pissed off at the world and have no idea what the fuck it is I am so angry about kind of moments. But I am not one of those mentally crazies that the news is getting all fucked up about themselves. They really need to chill already. They are way too intense about everything and freaking the hell out of people. When they were talking about the President’s Inaguaration, they sounded like the ebola virus was going to hit Washington, DC and wipe out half the population like the case in Outreach. Get a grip, it’s only people occasionally sneezing and feeling a bit fluish. Just give them some Jewish chicken soap and send them home after the President is finished. Everyone will really be alright. Unless the hand of death already tapped you on the shoulder. No one can help you then .

So back quickly to my computer. I set up this video about laughing at Mental Illness and no sooner had I done that, yes, you guessed it. My computer crashed again. This time, the final time. I had it. Call the computer company and demand a brand new computer. I did just that and went on with the speaker phone on and ranted how this computer I bought less than a year again had crashed so many times that it made me lose a screenplay I’d been working on for months and that HP had probably cost me a 6 digit figure amount that was gone. Totally blown. My partner told me to stop scaring the shit out of the poor worker on the other end of the phone. I just wanted a new computer that worked. I supported their company. I told him I have been buying computers since 1984. And when Hp came into business that is who we bought our computers from.

Oh, but I did settle down. He said he would fix my computer and he sold me a new warranty. Someone from that company has been trying to do that since this particular computer has been screwing around with me. So for about 2 to 3 hours I wasted the evening working on fixing my computer with this workers help. I got a one year warranty so if I don’t smash my computer on something hard if I am angry or spill my milkshake into the keyboard then they will fix it free for a year and if it breaks for other reasons I get a whole new computer for just over one hundred and a quarter dollars. The price of the warranty. I fought it off, but I just couldn’t pull out one more no, I do not want a new warranty. They wore me down. Totally freaked out my partner so much that she had to rush out of the room saying something like, “I don’t want to know about it. Go ahead.” She gave up fighting it too.

My partner reminded me that I am a menace when it comes to gadgets. I have this telekenetic energy thing that when I get in a certain energized state, it can be a good state, but things around me that are plugged in or battery powered start to go weird and begin to do things they are not programmed to do. My computer acts like it is possessed half of the time. So does my walkman and my tablet and the DVR, you don’t want to know. We have gone through in one year, easily over 10 replaced DVRs and hundreds of phone calls to Comcast. I have some great talks with the people who work there. They probably have a larger file on me than the FBI. Please don’t get me going in that direction. I can tell you so many things about conspiracies but…

So without further stalls, listen, laugh, enjoy, be enlightened, remember don’t stigmatize-realize we are all people too. This is a very funny and honest lady. I really thing you will find out just what makes people laugh. jk the secret keeper

“Diseases of the body garner sympathy,” says comedian Ruby Wax “– except those of the brain. Why is that?” With dazzling energy and humor, Wax, diagnosed a decade ago with clinical depression, urges us to put an end to the stigma of mental illness.

I decided to add Joshua Walters whose TED Talk was just so inspirational that I felt he was a great balance with Ruby Wax. He’s enlightening and makes the word “crazy” not sound like such a negative reality. But it all depends on how one looks at it.

Ruby Wax-What’s So Funny About Mental Illness
Published on Oct 10, 2012

Joshua Walters-On Being Just Crazy Enough

Do Not Dismiss Bipolars Abilities to Be Somebody

3 Replies

Do Not Dismiss Bipolars Abilities to Be Somebody
Comment Written by Jennifer Kiley
The Secret Keeper

Bipolar Is Awesome

The following comment is in responses to an article I read on PsychCentral that I found condescending.
Here is my comment:

I think you are underestimating the power of healing someone with bipolar can achieve through many methods. Getting off all of the medications that were suppose to make me feel more sane didn’t work. They made me feel worse. I am off of all psych meds and instead I am working with Tom Wootten who wrote Bipolar In Order. Through meditations and getting healthy and working through my depressions, I am finding that I am more creative and the highs are more under control.

I am not saying it is easy but I would rather be med free and have a clear mind then drugged out and thought to be a misfit mentally disordered person that you describe Bipolars as being. Bipolar is not something one should stigmatize. It is something to be proud of. Churchill was a great leader and Bipolar. Please tell me any leader that does not need help in a crisis. They don’t need to be bipolar to need assistance. It is something the job calls for.

I am a creative polymath who would be broken if I were still taking my psych meds. I call that time my dry period. Why is it that you want Bipolars to be automatons rather than productive in their lives. And if someone wants to be a leader, it should not be denied them because of Bipolar. I don’t see it as a disorder. The Mental Health field and you see it that way. Yes, everyone is different in degrees. We all need help in our lives on different levels. But do not disparage bipolars with such limitations.

Bipolar has created some of the most amazing artists of all times. The energy that bipolars find is like a high without the need of drugs. It is a profound feeling inside to create a painting, a poem, a novel or whatever it is one wants to do with our lives.

Please do not dismiss us in such a calvalier way. We are people not a disorder. And we cannot be categorized. Depression may be part of our lives and it can be a dangerous state to be in but all of life has its dangers. DO not stigmatize me or anyone else that you call Bipolar with your general information and studies. Bipolars can blow anyone off the wall with their abilities. So don’t underestimate what we are capable of doing.

Article Link That I Am Responding To Titled: “Bipolar Disorder: A First Rate Madness

Comment Page For This Article. Responders Were Not Too Pleased With This Person’s Article:
Comments on Bipolar Disorder: A First Rate Madness? By Dr. Yanni Malliaris

BiPolar In Order

Plum Tree Books

SPECIAL ATTENTION: Song of Sahel SOS Click to Learn More

Children cannot eat words; blinded by starvation, they cannot see pictures. Join us for the Event for the Song Of Sahel by Dr. Niamh Clune

The Art of Seeing Depression

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The Art of Seeing Depression
By Tom Wootton
Author of “BiPolar In Order”

James Turrell is one of the most remarkable artists alive. He has an amazing understanding of light and perception. By using darkness and almost imperceptible light, his artwork totally changes the way we see the world. I think his work with light and darkness is a perfect metaphor for trying to see depression in a new light.

james turrell – the tunnel

When you enter one of Jim’s installations, it is so dark that you cannot see anything, or at least not much. The amount of available light is simply too little for our eyes to use. His artwork is not a picture on the wall; it is the entire environment, in which both the perception of the audience and time act as critical components.

If you stay long enough, your eyes begin to adjust to the lack of light. You start to see things that were there all along, but your eyes were not yet ready to perceive.

When you go back out into the “real” world, you bring an entirely new perspective; you begin to see everything in a whole new light (pun intended). Jim’s work can truly be described as a discovery of the act of seeing.

james turrell – experimenting with light

My own art is similar to Jim’s in many ways. Like Jim, instead of using a brush to paint a picture, I choose to build an environment that blocks out light and helps me to perceive. Unlike Jim, my art is not in the physical world; it is in my interior world.

Instead of blocking out the physical light, I learn to block out the thoughts and feelings that distract me from seeing the more subtle light that shines within each of us. I then discover deeper truths hidden within my own consciousness. When I return to the external world, I begin to see the same subtle light in the eyes of everyone I meet.

My art is called meditation. I have been practicing it for over 45 years, sometimes as much as 8 hours a day. Meditation has given me the ability to “see” things in a much deeper way. It can be described as the discovery of the act of knowing.

james turrell – afrum white

I recently went through a fairly deep depression, and came out thinking a lot about James Turrell. I don’t know if he is bipolar or experiences depression, but if he does, I bet he sees it in the way I do.

When I went into depression the first time, all I saw was darkness and pain. At the time, I thought it was unbearable, but looking back and comparing it to some of the far deeper hells I have since experienced, it was really nothing.

As my perception has grown, I am beginning to “see” things I never knew were there: good insights, lessons, and personal growth. In “seeing” clearly, I notice that now depression doesn’t affect me so negatively. It now affects me much more, but in a positive way, at least according to the way I have learned to “see.”

On a scale from one to five, I used to think of a five as experiencing no depression at all, and a one as so deeply depressed that I would attempt suicide. I thought four was a little painful, three even more, and two almost unbearable. Since there was no “light,” and all I could “see” was pain, I judged my experiences solely on that basis.

As I spent more time trying to “see” in depression, I began to notice many things that were probably there all along, but I could not “look” through the pain to “see” them. As I started to discover the “act of seeing” in depression, I started to ponder the significance of my discoveries.

Each time I experienced depression, it became clearer to me. I began to redefine what depression was, based on the features that I could now “see” more clearly. My scale began to change, from a scale based on pain, to one based on a much richer perception of what was going on. I still define a five as “having no symptoms,” and a one as “so difficult that I try to kill myself,” but four, three, and two have become a rich and varied landscape.

james turrell – untitled

I have also come to understand the significant difference between those who have “situational depression,” caused by outward circumstances, and those who have what I consider “true depression,” caused by mental illness. I have learned to articulate that clearly enough to make a difference in the lives of both those who are truly depressed and those who love and support them.

Everyone experiences some form of depression at least once in life. If it is really bad, it means extreme sadness, crying, inability to function fully, lethargy, dullness of thought, and more. For most, it is caused by some great loss like the death of a loved one, or some other great tragedy.

james turrell – roden crater

You wake up in the morning so sad, you think you cannot get through the day. It might even debilitate you for a day or so, but for the most part, you get up, grab a cup of coffee, go to work, and somehow make it through the day, even if seriously diminished in your ability to perform. If it is really bad, this depression lasts for weeks or months, as you slowly get on with life. That is a three in my book. It is also about as deep as anyone gets from “situational depression,” the kind that comes solely from outside circumstances and not from mental illness.

A two is not just the same thing with more intensity. It is fundamentally different than a three. In a two, the world becomes black and white. There is no color. There is an intense physical pain. Thoughts become confused. During such pain, I lose the ability to even remember a time when it was not like this. I can see no future when it might go away. (This is called “state specific memory” and is very common.) My mind keeps repeating “kill yourself, kill yourself, kill yourself,” and I keep seeing visions of car crashes and every method of suicide that you can imagine. All I can do is hang on. A two is the worst kind of hell. (At the time of writing this, I erroneously assumed that a one meant you killed yourself from the pain of the two state.)

james turrell – light install

Being able to explain depression better and help others is great, but there is so much more. Central to my belief, is that nothing is all good or all bad, but a combination of good and bad components. We “see” the good and bad according to our ability to perceive and the filters that we place on ourselves, based on how we assign value. In my struggles with depression, I have been frustrated with my inability to “see” any good in it. In my recent depression and thoughts about James Turrell, I have begun to “see” depression in a whole new light. I am not ready to choose depression, but next time it comes, I look forward to exploring a whole new landscape.

james turrell – untitled

I have noticed that aspects of depression that I used to consider a two and almost unbearable, I am now denoting as a three. I have also begun to gain tremendous insight into many things, including my spiritual life. It is from a spiritual perspective that I have really begun to see that depression can be a great thing. In my readings of the lives of saints, pain and despair is often mentioned as a catalyst that helped them to become better persons and act in a manner that is called saintly. After always struggling with this concept, I am now beginning to understand.

It was the misery of depression that brought me to the realization that I am mentally ill. The unbearable pain is what helped me to recognize the torture I have done to others. Without the heartache, I would never have learned who I really am, and come to understand the power of acceptance. Without the despair, I would not have had the desire to become a better person.

The saints talk about having a despair so strong it becomes unbearable. The despair they feel is specific, it is the agony they feel from not having a direct experience of God. The despair becomes so strong, that they would rather die than go another minute without Him. They describe it as getting to a point that their own sense of self becomes the thing that separates them from God; they feel that they “die” into oneness with the divine. I believe that is what Saint Paul meant when he said “I die daily.”

james turrell – sky apace

In my depressions, I feel tremendous despair. My mind keeps repeating over and over “kill yourself, kill yourself.” What if my perception keeps becoming clearer and I start to notice that the despair truly is for God? What if the self that I am trying to kill, is the “little self” that is keeping me from realizing the true nature that I believe is in each of us. This is our divine self. Jesus said “The kingdom of God is within you.” It seems that for at least some of us, it is depression and despair that gives us the ability to “see” our divine self. That is why depression is the best thing that ever happened to me.

(See Post that follows: “BiPolar In Order vs. Bipolar Disorder” for my opinion of Tom Wootton’s book “BiPolar In Order,” and my story of why I chose to purchase and use this book to help me with my Bipolar).

“normal” vs. “bipolar” = “stigma”

5 Replies

“normal” vs. “bipolar” = “stigma”
by jennifer kiley

a symbol for support and caring

i started writing a response to a comment on my blog and it turned out longer then i expected and i turned it into a post. what they said so inspired me that i ended up with this post, talking about “normal” vs “bipolar” or “mentally ill” is something that cannot be measured. and how we are exhibited in films and on tv is such an exaggeration. that is why society cannot see who we are who have a psych chart with one or multiple diagnoses.

i will not allow someone to judge me b/c of what my chart says. if someone wants to judge then i don’t feel that they are the kind of person i would want in my life. it may be hard for those in our life to deal with the effects of our diagnosis/es but that’s what therapy is for, to learn how to adjust. if someone loves you they will be willing to work on understanding. and adjust as you adjust to the effects of your bipolar or whatever your diagnosis might be. i know it isn’t easy for them but it isn’t easy for us either. there really isn’t any such thing as “normal.”

when i was a teenager and started private therapy, it was one of the best days of my life. i found someone who wanted to help me understand who i am. at that time, i was always worried that i would go crazy. what put that into my head, i am not sure. shortly after starting in therapy my younger brother had a nervous breakdown. that didn’t help with what was going on inside my mind. where did i get the notion that i could go crazy?

sometimes it feels that way for everyone
it’s called being stressed out

i really don’t remember but i do know i always felt so outside of all the people around me. my family was really f@cked up. this i recognized. when i was still a teenager my therapist helped me to get it together enough to move out of their house. at that time in therapy, i was just dealing with the trauma of my childhood. the idea of labeling what was wrong with me never came up. since then, however, i have been given so many different labels, but none of them was “normal.”

sylvia plath

i would say it was easier to understand myself when i knew “why” and “what” was going on inside of me. labels may cause someone to be “stigmatized” by society but for me it helped me to understand myself more clearly. when i found out long after i was given the diagnosis of bipolar, at first, it was quite a shock, but then i read as many books and articles on it. i think i was lucky b/c the first book i read was “Touching Fire,” written by Dr. Kay Redfield Jamison. it’s a brilliant book and talks all about the creative/artistic temperament of someone with bipolar. she examines the lives of famous artists, writers, poets, musicians who were bipolar. it effected me in a good way and made it easier to accept having bipolar. it puts one in good company.

virginia woolf (1902)

maybe i have a grandiose attitude, but i say f@ck you to those in society that don’t try to understand the differences of every human on this planet. to judge someone for whatever reason, is not right. when i finally realized i was a lesbian, i was stunned at first, then accepting, then i freaked out and wanted to commit suicide but eventually i found that acceptance of myself again and felt overjoyed that i was GAY. the same kind of acceptance has come with everything in my life, even my psych diagnoses.

edgar allen poe

am i overjoyed to get so depressed that all i want to do is die? NO! but then i know how creative i am able to be when i am in a hypomanic state. my partner may be driven a touch crazy when i am hypomanic b/c my thoughts come pouring out at the speed of light and switch all over the place. and my moods tumble out into anger or i will lose it for a moment and get into an argument. but i pull back as fast as i am able in order to get my behavior under control.

kurt cobain-i am an artist that uses words and music and the visual to express myself-but i hardly knew him yet was so saddened by his suicide and grieved his loss-my therapist could not even understand my feelings and now my partner does not get it-i think i felt a kinship with him-i knew his kind of pain-wanting and attempting to kill myself several times and in my thoughts all the time-it holds some kind of fascination and comfort to know there is always that way out

people that worry when they hear that you have a mental disorder, whatever it may be, should not assume from what they watch on tv or see in films, that if you are not totally “normal” or “sane” – what ever that is – that you will become violent or want to kill people or anything like that, have such a misconception of just what bipolar or any other diagnosis is. we are not those people you see in films or on tv. those are fictional creations and distortions but it is a large part of why the “stigma” is reinforced and “we” the “stigmatized” have to bear the distorted reputation in our lives.

lord byron-out on the edge and out of control

these people, whomever they are, who think we are “crazy” when we are just dealing with a disorder or illness like anyone who might have diabetes or cancer or multiple sclerosis. society accepts a medical condition and is quite understanding if they have any compassion. but somehow, when your body, where your brain is contained, has an illness that effects how you are able to function mentally, you are somehow like a leper, untouchable and too different to be an acceptable member of society.

stephen fry manic-depressive-well may commit suicide

in the far away past, we were sent to asylums, far away from what eyes could see. forgotten. or maybe, like in Jane Eyre, hidden in a locked room up in the attic. those days are past but not forgotten. we do, in our society, still lock up those who are “crazy” if they start acting different than “normal,” but b/c of health insurance, are released onto the street to live. unprotected and looked upon as the lost and homeless.

van gogh “starry night” c. 1889

we are actually able to function in many different ways. and are not a threat to society. all we want is acceptance and not to be looked at as less than anyone else that is categorized as “normal.” we are not “crazy,” we just have a different way of perceiving the world around us. we have our rights to be treated like the human beings that we are, no less no more.

pollock “number 8″

what we want is understanding and some compassion. not to be “stigmatized” b/c we are perceived as so different from anyone else. we are artists, poets, writers, politicians, philosophers, atheletes, musicians, psychiatrists, students of life, we are everyone, part of the 98%. the 99% and the 1%. we are here. we are proud. get use to it.

a – z famous people with bipolar disorder

famous people with bipolar disorder

Bipolar as an Excuse

2 Replies

By Jennifer Kiley

(This is in response to a post I read. I thought about what I have done after finding out I was Bipolar and how it has effected having this knowledge.)

Bipolar as an “excuse…” I don’t try to use bipolar as an excuse but at times I know it is the reason I lose control. Since I was 19 I have been in and out of therapy for many reasons. I am pretty positive I had bipolar when I was a kid but my diagnosis was never caught until sometime in some psychiatrists office they decided I had bipolar but never bothered to tell me. They told me I had other severe diagnoses but they always seemed to leave that one off the list. Last year, I asked my most recent therapist if she could check my Mental Health charts and find out what was written down as my diagnoses. In black and white on April 20th 2011 she read out to me the list and said that I also had Bipolar Disorder. We both were shocked. She hadn’t been told before taking me on as a client and as I said no one ever told me. They did prescribe the medication for it a long while back. We are talking about double digit years. I’ve since stopped taking any psych meds recently (pyschiatrist approved) with the exception of something for anxiety and panic attacks. I hated the way they made me feel so numbed out and my mind wouldn’t function right and I felt depressed and sleepy all the time but couldn’t sleep. Since then I have been working with my therapist and reading every great book on bipolar that I have been able to find. Dr. Kay Redfield Jamison has written many and the first one I read was: “Touched With Fire.” This book is a fantastic first book to read after you are diagnosed. The author makes you feel good about yourself while she writes about all the famous creative people who had manic depression and left the world with th most magnificent art, writings and all manner of creation. And the many famous people alive today who live with Bipolar. Admittedly, living with Bipolar is not an easy life but it does have its satisfactions and fulfillments if you work with the treatments for it.

Knowing about the Bipolar has made everything make so much more sense. It has given me an anchor. I work hard on the anger that lets loose and it is extremely difficult to hold the rage back. I work hard in therapy and in my most important relationships to find some sense of control. It is easier to let loose than to hold back but I am trying to find a way to do just that. Writing helps work out my thoughts and emotions and so does talking with my therapist and partner and my doc. They are the rutter that guide me and keep me alive. Doing creative writing helps more than anything. I can focus on my characters in any story I want to give them and work on any subject. So I really try not to use Bipolar as an excuse any more than all the other mental health issues I have. It’s impossible for them not to effect all regions of my life but as I said earlier I have been working in therapy for years and with many therapists on understanding and trying to get ahold of my behavior and to understand my self. Meditation really does help to release some of the stress and music and writing mixed in, all cause an evolution in my world.

Stephen Fry: “I may well commit suicide!”

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Stephen Fry: “I may well commit suicide!”

information collected by jen kiley on 6.3.11

the fry chronicles

find out about stephen fry’s statement: “i may well commit suicide.”

a compilation of information as a reaction to this statement made by stephen fry on the tv show “in confidence” on sky art 1 on june 2nd, 2011 pre-telecast and post-telecast.

I watched this short video (which is no longer available) peaked my curiosity and also concern on my part that stephen fry would be making such a statement about suicide. having followed his career and life since first seeing him in P.G. Wodehouse on PBS and noticing him particularly in the film “Peter’s Friends”, I have had an admiration for his talent and brilliance ever since. I have also followed his revelations about his manic depression diagnosis as of late after having received knowledge that I also suffer from the condition of bipolar disorder: the name the psychological community choose to use in order to sanitize the strength and earthiness of the words manic depression, which describes more accurately what exactly one is taking about when one is suffering from manic episodes and fall down into the depths of depressive episodes. i know there are many levels this condition exhibits in each individual who finds that they have this diagnosis. for myself, I have suffered from this from the time I was a teenager but only recently discovered that I had bipolar disorder. It was hidden in my psych charts but never revealed to me until my most recent therapist unearthed it from my charts through my request to find out just what the totality of my diagnoses were in all their glory. Immediately after finding out I had this diagnosis I have been on an almost non-stop research mission to discover all the information I can find about manic depression. Amazement has hit me about what I am learning every day. I’ve listened to videos on YouTube; found the brilliant Dr. Kay Redfield Jamison who wrote the book: “Touched With Fire: Manic Depression and the Artistic Temperament” – a brilliant book and the one to read. I take it to bed with me every night and have been learning an in depth view of the inner workings of my emotional and psychological makeup. It helps to understand the creative artists who want to understand the reasons for their “Divine Madness”. I am a writer and reading this book is like reading an autobiography of the activities of my mind and my life. Dr. Jamison also does incredibly informative lectures that are on videos available on YouTube. Stephen Fry is also available and a multitude of other videos on bipolar: manic depression from all POV (points of view) are mind opening. I am extremely creative when I am in a manic phase but I also don’t get sleep and I drive my partner crazy when I go off on talking tangents non-stop. My therapist has to register all the information we talk about in our sessions at a later date. She tells me there is so much to remember but she also says that all of what I say is connected, no non-sequitors. i’ve always worried about being crazy and if i started losing the connection between my thoughts into the next one while talking i would then become concerned that the divine madness had begun its control on me and the battle was beginning to be lost. Finding out I have manic depression alleviates my constant concern from over the years of actually thinking I was always losing my mind. My first therapist when I was 19 told me that after all the drugs I was doing, esp. LSD, that if I was to go insane then surely that LSD would have succeeded in putting me out of my mind literally and permanently. Well, back to why I am putting together this post: Stephen Fry stating that: “I may well commit suicide!” ~jen~

A video with parts from the interview on the British TV show In Confidence: Stephen Fry states: “I may well kill myself.”

“In Confidence” Stephen Fry Interview

sorry for the quality. used flip video off of computer. just wanted to make available to public. important message and could not find any other way to get this out there. do not own copyright. not doing for profit. just want people to be aware of manic depression and the effects and how it can make you feel extremely euphoric one moment and deeply suicidal the next. Stephen Fry has been active in getting this message across. so just listen and forget about the quality of the video. thx.

He’s one of the most respected and well-loved stars currently on British television.

But Stephen Fry is clearly not comfortable with the ‘national treasure’ tag, as he reveals in this intimate interview.

Actor, author, director, presenter and raconteur extraordinaire, it seems there are very few things that Stephen Fry can’t do.

However, one thing he refuses to do is read his own reviews. So this fascinating In Confidence chat gets off to a rocky start, when Fry threatens to walk out if Laurie Taylor tells him what the critics said about his recent one-man shows.

Revealing he hasn’t read a newspaper in 13 years, Stephen argues why ‘would he spend his whole life avoiding stepping in puddles only to have someone throw water at his feet’?

But, thanks to his huge IQ and undeniably vast intellect, Fry doesn’t feel snubbing the media means he’s missing out, saying: “I’ve yet to meet anyone who reads newspapers who knows more about what’s going on in the world than me.”

One reason for rejecting the mass media is Stephen’s frustration with what he sees as his own overexposure – and the cult of celebrity.

Wittily recounting what it’s like for him to go out in public, posing for endless mobile phone pictures, he also honestly describes how his fame and fortune – while making life very comfortable – have distanced him from friends and led to awkward situations.

Despite his encyclopaedic knowledge of most subjects – as demonstrated on shows like QI – Stephen finds it frustrating that the viewing public see him as some kind of oracle. “If there is one thing I can’t bear, it’s a greasy prefect attitude,” he says.

Professor Taylor also speaks to Fry about his ongoing and well-publicised battle with bipolar disorder and the breakdown he suffered in 1995.

Although Stephen says he doesn’t feel his condition is too serious, he also knows that doesn’t mean that one day he might try to take his own life.

Discussing what he sees as his duty to raise awareness of mental health issues, he adds: “One thing that fame gives you that’s good, is that you are essentially immune from stigma.”

The following are two articles I found through a search that I felt were somewhat informative with obviously some repetition in the reporting:

Stephen Fry warns his illness may lead him to commit suicide June 3, 2011 @11:06AM

“I may kill myself,” says Stephen Fry

Stephen Fry explains the impact of bipolar disorder in a candid TV interview and warns it might lead to suicide.
British actor and comedian Stephen Fry says his depression may one day lead him to commit suicide and that bipolar disorder should not be dismissed as a “celebrity designer accessory”.

Fry, 53, has long spoken publicly about his battle with cyclothymic disorder, a form of bipolar disorder, including in his documentary series Secret Life of The Manic Depressive.

In an interview aired in Britain, Fry expressed his frustration that his condition was sometimes described as “bipolar light”.

“It’s a morbid condition and any doctor will tell you it’s one of the most serious morbid conditions at present in Britain,” he told the Sky Arts interview program In Confidence.

“The fact that I’m lucky enough not to have it so seriously doesn’t mean I won’t one day kill myself. I may well.”

He joked that many people do not talk about their mental health issues, in the same way no one would show off a case of genital warts.

“We’ll take your word that you’ve got them, but must you really show them to anybody?

“Similarly with my mental disorders, why would anybody want to see [them]?”

But he said it was worth speaking out for the sake of others who might turn to alcohol and drugs to control their moods.

“I know how easy it is to think that it must be a celebrity designer accessory problem, in the same way that homosexuality is seen as one because only people like me talk about it.

“Naturally someone who works in an office is not going to talk about their mental instability because they’ll either get teased bullied or fired.

“That’s the problem with it, the stigma of it is enormous.”

In excerpts of the interview published in The Daily Mail, Fry also spoke about the “exhausting” demands of fame.

“You resort to not travelling on the Tube or walking round the street any more and going in a big car with a driver.

“And people think, ‘Oh, he thinks he’s so grand, doesn’t he?’ Well, no. I’d rather walk, but sometimes I just can’t.

“I feel I would love to close down for a number of years in some way and just be in the country making pork pies and chutneys and never have to poke my head out of the parapet.

Why I may commit suicide one day, by ‘exhausted’ Stephen Fry
By Lydia Warren

Last updated @7:03 PM on 2nd June 2011

Stress: Stephen Fry will discuss his battle with bipolar disorder

Stephen Fry finds the demands of fame ‘exhausting’ – and fears he may one day kill himself.

In a TV interview to be screened tonight, the 53-year-old broadcaster discusses his struggles with bipolar disorder.

‘The fact that I am lucky enough not to have it so seriously doesn’t mean I won’t one day kill myself – I may well,’ he says.

Fry came close to committing suicide in 1995 after walking out of the West End play Cell Mates, which had suffered poor reviews.

He fled Britain by ferry and was missing, feared dead, for a week before he resurfaced in Belgium.

He later revealed that he almost gassed himself in his car before escaping the country, but ‘I had this image of my parents staring right in at me… so I decided not to do it’.

In tonight’s interview, he laments: ‘It is exhausting knowing that most of the time the phone rings, most of the time there’s an email, most of the time there’s a letter, someone wants something of you. They want to touch the hem of the fame, not the hem of the person.

‘You resort to not traveling on the Tube or walking round the street anymore and going in a big car with a driver.

‘And people think, “Oh, he thinks he’s so grand, doesn’t he?” Well, no. I’d rather walk, but sometimes I just can’t.

I feel I would love to close down for a number of years in some way and just be in the country making pork pies and chutneys and never have to poke my head out of the parapet.’

Fry dismisses claims that he intentionally adds to the commercial pressures he is under, defending his voiceover work on adverts.

He denies that jobs such as his voice campaigns for Twinings tea and Marks & Spencer are to make more money, asserting that he already has enough.

He says: ‘I will continue to do commercials because they are so enjoyable, not because of the money – because I don’t need the money – but because it is really wonderful.’

On the Sky Arts programme In Confidence, Fry also talks about his 15-year addiction to cocaine, revealing he used to take it to enhance his enjoyment of crossword puzzles.

stephen fry interview on manic depression

Lastly I came upon a Forum where they were discussing Stephen Fry and this topic and other points of his life. I edited out the majority of negative comments, yet included a few just to demonstrate how insensitive people can be toward Stephen and the attitudes that one should shut up about speaking on the subject of suicide or mental illness. Where some of the vitriolic attitude comes from decide for yourself. It is also mentioned in the discussion about an interview for a British Gay Magazine where Stephen supposedly makes unkind comments about women. I am not aware nor have I read this interview but his response to it was he was doing an Oscar Wilde and playing with his wit during the interview and denied being serious and also felt he was misquoted. The Gay Magazine said they had him on tape and refuted his denials. Well, he is a Gay man and I am a lesbian and I don’t always have the nicest things to say about the opposite sex. I will leave that part of it here and say no more.

Here are the comments that I selected from the Forum with the topic being discussed is Stephen Fry: the link to the full discussion is at bottom of post.

Couldn’t see a thread on this….
Is it just me who is angered by this? Seems a bit attention seeking and disrespectful to be honest. I am sure people who really commit suicide don’t go broadcasting it to everyone.
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
I’ve been in a street when Stephen Fry happened to be there with his boyfriend. He wasn’t left alone for a second, people wanting to chat, tell him they like him, ask for a photo, autograph etc.

As much as I am a fan and would liked to have said ‘hello’, I decided to leave the poor man alone, he didn’t get a second’s peace. I imagine much of his every day is like that.

I applaud Stephen for his honesty, talking about his depression and the effects of it, too many people cover it up.
* * * * * * * * * * * * *

Aren’t these just a few comments taken out of an interview he gave? I can only assume he was being quizzed about being bi-polar. I think it’s ok for a person to talk about their personal feelings on occasion, famous or not but maybe that’s just me
* * * * * * * * * * * * *

If you are friends or have a relationship with someone famous or semi famous then you do see just how monotonous fame is.
I agree with his comments about driving in a darkened car instead of walking, It can drain you and take four times as long because everyone wants to say hello.
Some of his observations are not quite as clear or even as well thought through. But I doubt many peoples are all the time.

It is easy to jump down someone’s throat on DS especially when the quotes have been edited or presented by a third party. Taken out of context a quote can sometimes seem extreme, needy, excessive or just plain wrong.
The media will always choose the highlights to grab attention to their article etc
* * * * * * * * * * * * *

I can completely understand what he is saying. When you suffer from depression the way Stephen does, it is a lifelong condition and not something that can be made better by giving happy pills.
I can speak from experience because and I can never say that I would never do it again because you can never predict that you are going to hit the bottom and feel like that again.
I hate it when people criticise others who have tried to end it all or who actually have done it and call them selfish and of taking the cowards way out.
Its one thing saying ‘I have felt like I wanted to but I didn’t because I thought of others’ etc…. But to actually try to end it is a different thing.
I’m not good at putting things into words, I just say that depression and mental illness is not a thing that you just grow out of and more people should try to understand that.
I think Stephen Fry is just being honest and its a shame that a person cannot be honest about their mental health without other people being nasty.
* * * * * * * * * * * * *

There is an idea that people who want to kill themselves keep quiet about it. Some people, however, choose to talk about it.

Stephen merely said that it was a possibility at some point in the future. This is the same for a lot of people (myself included).
* * * * * * * * * * * * *

I didn’t see it as a threat or attention seeking. I think he’s just commenting on the unpredictability of a bi-polar person’s emotions and behaviour.
* * * * * * * * * * * * *

My dad had severe bipolar and spent alot of years telling people he was going to die by suicide, and ‘tried’ to commit suicide more times than I care to remember.

I kind of think Stephen is being honest and aware of his illness..
* * * * * * * * * * * * *

this comment irritates me but it’s an overview of what types of comments he is commenting about that are disturbing that people, would be so nasty about stephen fry. such assholes. no compassion. i don’t care if they don’t like him. it’s probably b/c he is gay and creative and intelligent and they are not and are jealous b/c they aren’t able to be so articulate and afraid of being open and self examining of their lives.

So money is nice but doesn’t make him completely happy and he wishes he had recognition for his work but didn’t get mobbed in public so often and could walk around peacefully without anyone stopping him or bothering him along the way.

I’m sorry, I think anyone would be annoyed if after years and years of being followed, shouted at in the street and approached by strangers who expect immediate affection for simply recognising you there seemed to be no end in sight.

He seems to accept his position has made him rich and comfortable, but he doesn’t seem entirely happy with the fame and adulation that comes with it. He also seems emotionally retarded in some ways as his Shrink Rap episode with Pamela Stevenson showed previously in regards to his take on being raped.

An intelligent socially awkward man who doesn’t like strangers approaching him and enjoys solitude if he can’t in company he enjoys.

I think you’ll find that’s virtually all of the male members of MENSA.

Dude has a personality disorder and has a skewed view of the world, I don’t see how that’s exactly deserving of any hate. If anything I find it a bit sad someone so educated is seemingly emotionally stunted in many ways.

Also if so many of you apparently hold a great disdain for him, why would you watch anything he is in, let alone something as self serving as an interview focused solely on the man? Are you masochists or just idiots who can’t pick up the remote control when you see something you don’t like?
* * * * * * * * * * * * *

a sample of a comment that f@#king pisses me off!!!

Fame is the same for everyone, and not everyone acts like a petulant kid in the same way Stephen does when someone dares to say he’s ‘boring’ or that his views on women are revolting.

Is someone forcing him to lead a public life, if he can’t hack it?

The obvious fact is he craves sympathy as much as he craves adulation.

If he wants a quiet life in a beautiful countryside manor and to spend his days making chutney, he can. Apparently though, he’s having too much wonderful jolly fun selling insurance and tea. Oh, the infernal dichotomy and torture of the artist at work. My heart bleeds for the man with the huge wage packet who craves a quiet life but is compelled by forces beyond his reckoning to do voiceovers for plastic talking phones. A man who craves a quiet life but voluntarily shares his every thought, whim and fart with a million ‘followers’. A man who has public attention-seeking temper tantrums where he storms off in front of his million followers because someone dared to have an opinion of him. A man who craves a quiet life but is forced to publicly express his disgusting opinions of women, lie about having said them, and then once again, storm off in a huff. A man who wants to be right about everything, all the time, to have it both ways, to judge and not be judged, to simultaneously crave anonymity and adulation, to be beyond criticism. In other words, a man who is full to the brim with ****ing $hit.
* * * * * * * * * * * * *

Its up to him, if he felt like sharing then, his choice again.
* * * * * * * * * * * * *

I think a lot of fans can be a bit selfish at times when in the presence of their idol. I’d only ask for an autograph if I got talking to a celebrity and wanted their autograph. Otherwise, no.
* * * * * * * * * * * * *

How exactly do you think people afford to retire in the country? By working and making enough money to do so.

The dichotomy is that if he wants that lifestyle when he retires, he has to accept the trappings of fame while he makes the big bucks. So he deals with being mobbed on the street now in the hope he can retire comfortably and not end up losing most of it to taxes year after year when he’s no longer earning.

If you dislike his views about women, that’s fine. But to actually express such hostility towards someone for their views… I’m not sure if you’re aware this is not a fascist or communist county and he’s entitled to hold whatever views he wants as long as he doesn’t try enforce them on anyone else. I don’t see him starting anti-feminist marches anytime soon so perhaps your heated indignation is more a reflection of your intolerance towards other opposing views and inability to consign such views as personally held beliefs rather than socially enforced dictums.
* * * * * * * * * * * *

Don’t be so harsh to judge his comments,

He is a highly intelligent man with severe and I mean severe bi polar.
* * * * * * * * * * * * *

As both an admirer of Stephen Fry and a bipolar sufferer (I use that word with a pinch of salt because I don’t think I suffer with it all the time, or at least not right now) myself; I am disgusted by some of the comments being posted here, I thought DS members had a bit more respect than to wish him dead so ‘we no longer hear his annoying voice in Direct Line ads’. You utterly horrible people.

It comes across as ‘attention seeking’ because he needs help, whenever I’m feeling suicidal I think the best thing to do is tell someone who I can trust because we need huge amounts of support, it’s not a case of ‘Oh, pull yourself together’, Bipolar Disorder is a serious mental illness that can lead to severe stress, outrageous and impulsive behavior, emptiness inside, mental exhaustion and of course the worst symptom, suicide. It can be an awful thing to put up with and I wouldn’t wish it upon anyone, I fully understand how Mr. Fry feels, if he ever did such a thing as commit suicide then I would be utterly devastated, he’s my favourite person alive because he’s so wise, warm and friendly. My thoughts are completely with Mr. Fry at this time.
* * * * * * * * * * * * *

this is one of the negative comments:

His views on women are anything but wise, they’re vicious and bigoted.

If he feels he is unable to function as a ‘celebrity’ he has the option of retreating at any time. Tweeting to a million followers and extolling the virtues of doing commercials are not the actions of one who wishes to be alone.

If outrageous and impulsive behavior, along with disgusting outbursts are a symptom of his illness then those who point them out are doing him a favour. Hopefully his family, friends and associates will see the mess he’s getting into. Likewise with a drunk, a drug addict, a schizophrenic, a paranoid delusional, those who kiss his arse in the face of it all and pretend everything is normal are only enabling him to ignore his condition and worshiping it’s manifestations, if it is indeed the cause.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J******
I think Stephen Fry is just being honest and its a shame that a person can not be honest about their mental health without other people being nasty.
No one is being nasty about his mental health, they’re being truthful about his hypocrisy and his hateful comments towards women in general. If anyone here has made nasty comments about bipolar disorder, by all means, point them out. I’ve had several problems of my own, but I don’t feel the need to constantly, relentlessly use them as an excuse for any opinion I publicly express. Stand by your opinions or apologise for them. Stephen made his opinions on women clear to his interviewer in Attitude magazine. Then he claimed he was misquoted and never said them, and publicly condemned the pioneering publication – one of the first gay issues based magazines in the UK I believe?

An earlier, video interview of Stephen sharing the exact same views then surfaced. Then Attitude magazine threatened releasing the tapes of their interview, and that they would prove Stephen was quoted verbatim. Stephen backed off into a corner saying he was merely ‘gracefully playing with ideas like Oscar Wilde’.

At no point did he apologise to Attitude magazine for throwing their credibility and decency into question. At no point did he admit his lies.

Failure to accept responsibility or apologise for your nasty, vicious actions and hateful, anti-women views are not symptoms of bi-polar disorder. They are symptoms of being a gutless, spineless little coward who’ll throw anyone under the bus to preserve your own image.

All you worshipers – I wonder, would you believe bi-polar disorder excused Nick Griffin’s racist views, Jan Moir’s homophobic views, or Richard Littlejohn’s generally ‘hate everyone who’s not white, male and middle class views’? If not, why do you feel it excuses Stephen’s low opinion of women as spineless, needy whores, reluctantly putting out for their desperate requirement of a man to protect them?
* * * * * * * * * * * * *

Also it’s worth noting his former comedy partner, Hugh Laurie is an A List TV star in the USA, with a mega hit show and is the highest paid TV Actor in the world right now.
* * * * * * * * * * * * *

His comments on women were stupid but this stuff happens, some public figures put their foot in it. I’m not that offended personally. People just go off the deep end with this stuff. There not really much point posting in a forum like this as it seems mostly populated by self righteous fools that think they know everything.

He is not always right but who is? I suppose you are right All the time eh, never put your foot in it?
* * * * * * * * * * * * *

This quote was taken from his Sky Arts In Confidence interview, and as per, DS takes it out of context. He talks about the condition he has, in which the interviewer describes as “watered-down bipolar” in which Stephen disagrees by pointing out that people have died because of it, and it is serious. He uses himself as an example to almost emphasize how unexpected it can be when it can be really bad and it is not something to be taken lightly. I suggest all the negative commenters here should watch the interview then respond back.
* * * * * * * * * * * *

Dear Mr. Fry

That is simply too much information. Sorry you have depression and all that but you are in an excellent position than us lesser mortals in that you have access to the very best in medical/psychiatric specialists to help you, given that you are not short of a bob or two.

I sympathize with your problems but please do not let it be know you are contemplating suicide that sir is your own business.

Yours
Bibblebabble Esq BA (Hons)
* * * * * * * * * * * * *

I’m sure he will take that into consideration lol. DS made the article, he didn’t force them to. he did an interview and they jumped on it, what do you want him to do about it?
* * * * * * * * * * * * *

He says nothing whatsoever about contemplating suicide.
* * * * * * * * * * * * *

one of the negative comments out of context but related to the following comment

No, you’re right, I should keep my responses to his bigoted opinions to myself, just like when Jan Moir expressed views he disagreed with, and he stayed quiet. Oh wait….

What is this, he’s entitled to express his views, but if I express mine, I’m a ‘fascist’? At what point did I try to enforce my views on Fry, you or anyone? Don’t talk in terms you clearly don’t understand.

Personally I found his views on women every bit as disgusting as Jan Moir’s views on homosexuality (both made bigoted assumptions about perceived ‘seedy’ qualities and motives of a lifestyle they don’t understand), and I treat them with equal disgust.

Are Stephen Fry’s publicly expressed opinions beyond criticism? Does one reach a certain level of self-satisfaction and all are merely expected to bow and kneel at the altar of their pomposity?

Personal beliefs are ones own business. Personal beliefs shared in the public arena are open to scrutiny.

Nice try. Next?
* * * * * * * * * * * * *

My point is if you don’t like someone’s views, wasting time focusing on them is just that, a waste of time. You’re not personally rebuking Fry’s opinions to his face are you? So what are you trying to accomplish here? Obviously some hollow victory since apparently you feel you have defeated me and await someone else to step up to be “next”. How incredibly pathetic of you to reduce this to a competition when I am simply suggesting that since you can’t change his views and cannot hold a dialogue with him to suggest he change his ways, exactly what does you expressing your hate for his views achieve? Also, what do his views on women have to do with his views on his own mental well being or lack thereof?

To me it seems you have saw an opportunity to take Fry to task for views he has expressed elsewhere rather than commenting in context about his views on his own health, rather than any on women. Well good for you for taking the shot when you had the chance, I hope you feel you have achieved something in your own little way. I was raised to believe if you can’t agree with someone’s views, it’s best to respect their right to them and move on. Obviously you have a different mindset where you feel the urge to somehow decisively defeat someone in your own mind before they’ve even had time to reply. How that works, I don’t know. With that said, I think I’ll avoid any dialogue with you in the future since you seem to be incredibly self righteous and boorish, something you seem to accuse Fry of being as well. Funny, that.

Also I didn’t say you tried to enforce your views on anyone. I said Fry doesn’t try enforce any of his views on anyone. If he thinks little of women that’s his thing, it’s not like he’s going to Women’s Institute meetings and telling them they need to get home and get used to being barefoot and pregnant, is he? You claim I am talking in terms I don’t understand yet you are suggesting I suggested about you something I suggested about Fry. Take a breather from your indignation and combative mentality to read things properly next time.

forum on discussion of stephen fry re: “i may well commit suicide.”

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1485168

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Stephen Fry: “I may well commit suicide!”

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